Just googled 'jehovahs witnesses', jwn was 6th, so unless people are really impatient or trigger-happy with the mouse, most should see it. I came to this site by searching for disfellowshipping experiences, I've known of some very unfair examples and wondered if it was widespread or just isolated incidents... Now I know. Also, the support here is fantastic, keep it up :)
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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THIS FORUM FIGHTS WATCHTOWER POWER
by Band on the Run ini was just thinking about the internet transforming jw land.
they employ the latest tech.
to get their message across.
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The Quiet One
Tec: Thanks for sharing that, it means a lot. Total dependence on a man-made organisation is an idea that's abhorrent to jw's, and yet that is what is essentially taught from birth for some of us, without realising it.. JonathanH: Thank you VERY much, that is EXACTLY my point, what I've been trying to say right from the start, but not had the intelligience or communication skills to articulate. As you said, if a belief is based on evidence, there will be a way to at least attempt to prove it wrong. But is faith in Christianity beyond that, beyond a book or facts that can be proven/disproven? The previous posts seem to indicate as much. See what you think of my skepticism post, though, as to whether anything can be proven (in a purely physical sense) either way... Aguest: Interesting ideas, I'm glad that you can have such conviction and self-belief. I just don't have confidence in my beliefs at the moment. Perhaps in time..
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Judas and Unforgivable Sin
by corpusdei ini'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.
it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.
judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.
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The Quiet One
To clarify, I'm asking would it not be injust to judge and give someone with a good heart/motive the same punishment as someone with a bad motive who committed the same crime (who would have stolen the bread and not paid the owner back, and didn't even need it)?
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Judas and Unforgivable Sin
by corpusdei ini'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.
it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.
judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.
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The Quiet One
(edited last post) Terry: Why does case by case have to equal acting on a mere whim? All circumstances are different, the only way to judge fairly IMO is to judge case by case. For example, if the prison sentence for stealing a piece of bread was a number of years, and a man knew this but stole a piece to prevent him from starving to death when he had had all his money stolen from him and nobody would give him a job or have pity on him and feed him, just so he could live and pay back the money, with interest, would you feel that it would only be absolutely just to give him the full prison sentence, even if you knew that under ANY other circumstance the man would not have stolen? That is legalism to me, not true justice which should be balanced with mercy... Its fine if you disagree, I'm only asking, not being dogmatic :)
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Judas and Unforgivable Sin
by corpusdei ini'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.
it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.
judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.
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The Quiet One
The one sin explicitly mentioned as unforgivable in the Bible is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So it'd be a good thing to avoid.. if anybody knows what exactly that involves. Charliebrownjnr:Judas, according to the gospels, left before the evening meal began, so he wouldn't have been a part of that covenant. Newchapter: There are serious logical problems with that theory IMHO. 1) If God looked into the future and saw Judas betray Jesus, that would have to mean it had definitely happened as God can't be wrong and thus it would be set in stone. 2) If God can use this 'foreknowledge' ability in that way, why does he not use it to see who will become wicked and who will be good and save everyone a great deal of suffering? 3) If he can't use this ability in that way, how can he justly destroy anyone at armageddon when they could repent at any time/have children that will grow up to be good people? Some Watchtower theories only really make sense until you think about them..
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Interesting statistic
by The Quiet One injust looking at latest yearbook and noticed something about the worldwide report (2010)... only 19 countries/lands reported an increase of 10% or more, and only 3 of those had 1,000+ publishers in 2009 (still under 2000 publishers in those 3 lands..) .
any thoughts?.
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The Quiet One
17 show negative growth.
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Interesting statistic
by The Quiet One injust looking at latest yearbook and noticed something about the worldwide report (2010)... only 19 countries/lands reported an increase of 10% or more, and only 3 of those had 1,000+ publishers in 2009 (still under 2000 publishers in those 3 lands..) .
any thoughts?.
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The Quiet One
Anyone have any thoughts on the report? Are there any religions with better growth rates etc.
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The Quiet One
Aguest: You have nothing to apologise for.. Just out of interest, do you believe that the Watchtower Society represents the Antichrist? Thanks for all the posts, I can tell you're a genuine Christian :)
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The Quiet One
Aguest: Thank you for your sincere and warm response. You don't really experience anybody talking to you like that in 'the truth'. I remember one time when I was going through hell for various reasons and, on a sheperding visit, an elder said a couple of obligatory nice things based on the voluntary work I'd been doing (and I should hope so, I really struggled to keep up with it all), and then pointed out I should have been at an assembly as we're 'commanded by Jesus and Jehovah', which was months before and he hadn't so much as asked after me in months! Sorry, I just had to let that out... I'll think on what you've said, I understand now that you don't need physical evidence to believe in Jesus, faith is basically anti-rational as it is based on things "not yet beheld". Heaven: Sorry about that, I think that reflex response was a product of years of jw brainwashing. Kind of scary, really.. Anyway, I've done a bit of studying and I think that I know where you're coming from. Here's an example right from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis 3:16- "To the woman he said: I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and yourcraving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you." And here's another scripture along the same lines- "Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34) The Bible has been used as a tool to control women in some religions in the past, so it's no wonder you feel that way, my last comment was dismissive and thoughtless..
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Interesting statistic
by The Quiet One injust looking at latest yearbook and noticed something about the worldwide report (2010)... only 19 countries/lands reported an increase of 10% or more, and only 3 of those had 1,000+ publishers in 2009 (still under 2000 publishers in those 3 lands..) .
any thoughts?.
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The Quiet One
Just looking at latest yearbook and noticed something about the worldwide report (2010)... Only 19 countries/lands reported an increase of 10% or more, and only 3 of those had 1,000+ publishers in 2009 (still under 2000 publishers in those 3 lands..) . Any thoughts?